The Ravenite Transcripts PART 2: John Gotti's Secret Meetings In Mrs. Cirelli's Apartment

The FBI surreptitiously recorded about 600 hours of discussions in the apartment above the Ravenite social club, six hours of which were entered into evidence during the 1992 murder and racketeering trial of John Gotti and his consiglieri Frank Locascio.


And in this installment of our ongoing series, we present the rest of the discussion from November 30, 1989. The transcript indicates there was a pause where we left off previously. We pick up from there. (These take an extraordinary amount of time to put together!)

FILE NUMBER: 183A-3507 

PLACE: Apartment above the Ravenite Social Club, located at 247 Mulberry Street in Little Italy, Manhattan 

TIME: 8:15 P.M. 


[. . . .]

GRAVANO: Know what I mean?

GOTTI: Yeah. But, no, I’m saying. Well, whoever done it, I don’t know who done it. And I know youse two—

GRAVANO: Well, I knew he didn’t have no balls!

GOTTI: That’s right.

GRAVANO: I knew he didn’t have no balls. Say, you were gonna do nothin’. (Clap sound)

GOTTI: Cocksucker.

GRAVANO: —to Nino. But, ah—

 GOTTI: But, anyway—

GRAVANO: So, how come you never said nothin’?

GOTTI: But, anyway, here’s a guy, whoever done it, probably the cops done it to this fuckin’ guy. Whoever killed this cocksucker, probably the cops killed this Paul. But whoever killed him, the cocks—he deserved it. (Snap sound) He wasn’t gonna do nothin’ to nobody, anyway.

GRAVANO: That’s right.

GOTTI: So why would we do it? We had nothin’ to do with it; no reason to do it.

GRAVANO: That’s right. [. . . .]

GOTTI: I’m trying to think what’s good for the overall picture, Sammy. First thing is this. With these fuckin’ lawyers on all these cases like, even for a bail application, they gotta go in there, argue for your client, within certain parameters. Then after that, keep your fuckin’ mouth shut. Like these guys, when Barry Slotnick got up on bail, on the bail hearing, “Your Honor, those charges don’t pertain to my client.” Sit the fuck down, or I’ll knock you down, you cocksucker! “Let the record show that, that’s Mr. Gotti they’re talking about. Not Mr. Carneglia. Oh, that’s Mr. Locascio you’re talking about, not Mr. Gravano.” Sit down, or I’ll knock you down, you motherfucker! Talk within certain parameters, and we’ll win, we’ll win. We’ll win, Sammy. We’ll win these fuckin’ cases. And we’ll be out a year from now, somewhere, a year and a half from now, somewhere, laughing a little bit. Probably have new developments, but we will be laughing at the (inaudible). (Tap sound) Believe me. Jimmy La Rossa, I already thought about that. But I’m gonna send him a feeler ahead of time. And I ask him—If he says “no,” I’ll kill him. (Pause) My pride (inaudible).

GRAVANO: Don’t ask.

GOTTI:—anything else.

GRAVANO: Don’t ask. Let, let somebody put out a feeler. But don’t even ask him.

GOTTI: Of course!

GRAVANO: (Inaudible) what I’m saying.

GOTTI: No, but see, I’m gonna say (inaudible) ’cause Eddie, Eddie Lino’s nice like that. So, hopefully, he got time for a case—


GOTTI: (Inaudible) This guy’s nuts!

GRAVANO: Jimmy’s crazy.

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: (Coughs) (Inaudible)

 GRAVANO: (Inaudible) They gonna have, they gotta be so fuckin’ dead, er, forget about it. Hey, I mean, they moved a case, but I don’t think they got, ah, to have these guys. They, they beatin’ the case.

GOTTI: They got a fuckin’ tape that they played at Mike’s case. Where they’re arguing, this fat motherfucker turns around. There’s five or six people in the room. I forget (inaudible).

LOCASCIO: They remember this tape? They remember talking about this tape?

GOTTI: ’Cause I don’t have the list (inaudible) ya know? I never spoke to “Fatso.”

LOCASCIO: Ya know what I’m talking about?

 GOTTI: Yeah.

LOCASCIO: Or that they may—

 GOTTI: No, I know that.

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: I know what you’re saying, Mike, ah—

 LOCASCIO: I mean, Mike telling him—

 GOTTI: —Mike doesn’t know—Yeah, Mike isn’t privy to (lowers voice) Eddie Lino’s on that tape. Fat Angelo (inaudible). They gonna spring on them at trial. That’s, that’s their whole trial (inaudible). They got a fuckin’ tape, this was on the (inaudible) whatever the fuck it was. Forget about it. This is that fat fuck! He ain’t winning his point. They’re talking about (tap sound) (inaudible) collecting monies from Sal.

GRAVANO: Angelo about the plane? (Inaudible)

GOTTI: AWACS—(All talking)

LOCASCIO: That’s not, that plane legit (inaudible).

GRAVANO: This here—

GOTTI: Bringing in one they never heard!

GRAVANO: And fuckin’ joking about it? 

GOTTI: “It’s two kilos! Yeah, but how, how do you know it’s two hundred and fifty thou? There’s two hundred and fifty thousand! Because it wasn’t ‘Charlie,’ it was heroin! A hundred twenty-five thousand a kilo, my brother told me.” He mentions everything word: heroin, “Charlie.”

GRAVANO: (Inaudible) say anything, this conversation? (Inaudible) 

GOTTI: Yeah! A code.

GRAVANO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: (Inaudible) 

GRAVANO: (Inaudible) with the plane—(inaudible)— 

GOTTI: Ah—They can pick out one with, ah, “Gaspipe’s” boat got caught in Howard Beach, or Freeport. Ah, fifty thousand bales, or fifty thousand pounds, fifty thousand tons. Did that happen one time? 

GRAVANO: I really don’t know. Ahh— 

GOTTI: I mean, I’m not aware. 

GRAVANO: (Inaudible) probably. 

GOTTI: Ah, this is what I, I understand. They got one, a tape with that. Ahh—; “See them fuckin’ guys. That was half a ours—” Ah, “What do you mean half ours?” “Well, ‘Gaspipe’ called me up this morning; ‘Gas’ called me up this morning. It’s half ours; half theirs; it’s half the guy up the fuckin’ block. Fifty thousand pounds, he partners this.” 

GRAVANO: Do they think there’s even a conversation with Vic? 

GOTTI: Oscar. Yeah. Vic was in there. He was one of the guys in that room. There’s all these guys that they want a baciuzzu [kiss], or they need something (inaudible) got, people never see the real thing; they’re all mopey motherfuckers! Hey, Sam, they gotta believe that they’re doing dope. But these are all useless conversations. These guys would worry about where to put the furniture in the house before they bought the house. (Pause) 

GRAVANO: Ah (inaudible). 

GOTTI: Let me tell you something, Sammy. 

GRAVANO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: If you think you could trust fifty fucking guys— 

GRAVANO: Right. 

GOTTI: —in a life-or-death situation, you’re a hard-on. 

GRAVANO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: You’re a hard-on. You’re a dangerous motherfuckin’ hard-on. Do you want me to tell you the guys, that they tellin’ each other they’re brothers, we’re brothers, it’s us against them; we’re all in this together. That’s probably when I heard them fuckin’ three punks, “It’s us against the world.” You know I lie (inaudible) with that (inaudible) I don’t do that (inaudible) (background noise). That’s their fucking talk! “It’s us against the world!” Eddie Lino, Di B, Frankie DeCicco, Angelo, Vic, “Gas,” Joe Messina, I’d go on for a fuckin’ hour, Sam. How long you got to stay here? What the fuck are youse nuts? How many fuckin’ brothers are youse? Vinnie, how many “brothers” are you? You wasn’t stupid, Frank, or Sammy. You wasn’t stupid. I ain’t stupid. How many fuckin’ “brothers” we got? (Pause) How long are we together? How long me and this guy together here, huh? Years ago. You don’t talk about it. 

GRAVANO: It’s over.

GOTTI: Not only it’s over, (tap sound) where the fuck are we going here?

GOTTI: —’Cause this is, he said, it can’t (inaudible) ya gotta do it, and now. (Tap sound) You know what “Jo Jo” told me outside, in the car, today? We were standing about fifteen, twenty blocks from the other guy. He says to me, “You know, John,” he says, “let me tell you,” (inaudible) he says, “I never was so proud, so happy in my whole life,” he says. “I knew,” he said, “I was talking with a few ‘Skippers’ from another ‘Family.’ ” He says, “Since youse are here, this is the first time that they could remember, in years, that the ‘Families’ ain’t arguing.” Nobody’s arguing. (Clap sound)


GOTTI: None of the “Families” are arguing with nobody. GRAVANO: No.

GOTTI: Everybody sedate.

GRAVANO: That’s true.

GOTTI: You know, think about it.

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible) about it.

GRAVANO: Yeah. No. GOTTI: (Coughs)

GRAVANO: (Inaudible) or nothin’.

GOTTI: I was thinking about it. I says, “Ya know, he’s right, the fuck.”

GRAVANO: And if it wasn’t for this guy. If it wasn’t for him, I think this really would be so fuckin’ united!

GOTTI: Greatest thing ever, yeah.

GRAVANO: It would be so united, we’d have somebody indicting the fuckin’ agents and the fuckin’ prosecutors—

GOTTI: And not only that.

GRAVANO: —fucking news guys.

GOTTI: Not only that.

GRAVANO: We’d be so close, forget about it.

GOTTI Not only that. If there’s a bad situation, hey, rules need a little changing or something …

GRAVANO: Five minutes. (Bang sound)

GOTTI: —send, send, send the five “underbosses” or the consiglieres. Together, boom. This is my way, (tap sound) my—thinking, because this “thing,” in other words, the five “Families,” put together (tap sound) bi, bah, bang! (Clap sound) That’s the law!

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The Ravenite Transcript Series