The Ravenite Transcripts PART 5: After Nasabeak Got Sick...

And how we all doing? Going stir crazy yet? It could be worse. As a dear friend recently told me, "It ain't so bad. It's like being in solitary, only with a full liquor cabinet and a flat-screen television." Amen to that...

John Gotti (October 27, 1940 – June 10, 2002)

An observation about the Ravenite Transcripts: it's stunning how much talking the former Gambino boss did. Below is the continuation of a single conversation between John Gotti and Frankie Loc... It just goes on and on and on, the FBI listening intently to every spoken syllable. Bruce Mouw and the FBI Gambino squad hit the jackpot in 1989 when they planted that bug in that apartment above the Ravenite on Mulberry Street in Manhattan's Little Italy.... And the conversation doesn't end with this installment, and it will continue in the next installment in this series.....which began here with the first installment.

See previous installment here

DECEMBER 12, 1989
FILE NUMBER: 183A-3507
PLACE: Apartment above the Ravenite Social Club, located at 247 Mulberry Street in Little Italy, Manhattan
TIME: 7:13 P.M.
PARTICIPANTS: JOHN GOTTI, FRANK LOCASCIO


LOCASCIO: You can’t hold it. So, tomorrow, I think it’s the best thing for you—

GOTTI: These guys look, these guys look at me, these people look at me. But they, I don’t even have to explain it. Anybody that don’t see what’s going on is a fuckin’ lunatic. Is a fuckin’ jerkoff. Hand job, and that’s the end of it. I mean, you kidding? You wanna take these fuckin’ guys that were welfare cases. People hanging around Frankie DeCicco. Welfare motherfuckin’ cases! They end up (inaudible). Nobody is gonna act that. Just by that. Frank—

LOCASCIO: If I could (inaudible) here comprehend that. I know, I know what you told me. But I can’t comprehend that. Who (inaudible) fuck asked that he’s this?

GOTTI: Oh, he’s in good shape, you know that. Oh, you don’t know he’s in good shape? Whoever gave him the money, if Sammy gave him the money, or you gave him the money, the guy’s in good shape, come on. The guy was a bum. He owed every fuckin’ Tom, Dick, and Harry will you please? The guy was a bum! You, do you know the guy?

LOCASCIO: I don’t know him. But you told me.

GOTTI: I know the guy intimately! For twenty years. What am I talking? Sixty-eight is what? Twenty years. I know the guy intimately twenty-one years. Do you know what “intimately” is? Used to bring the coffee to me and Frankie. (Inaudible) shot? That was this scumbag. So, you don’t know the guy, that’s what I’m saying, Frank. It’s amazing how, I don’t understand some people. I don’t (pause) I got five hundred guys that (inaudible) none of ’em are like that.

LOCASCIO: Even me.




GOTTI: We got guys that have been hanging around, caught with (inaudible). I could do that. Can’t I do this here? Can I put guys in spots? Can’t I fuckin’ give guys, ah, these positions? And make guys rich? I never did that for one guy, and I’ll never do it for one guy. This fuckin’ cripple downstairs, “Jackie Nose,” I give him, every week out of my pocket. Every week, Frankie. Every week he gets two thousand dollars. Where do ya think I get it? From a fuckin’ mulberry bush? That “junk” business? I told him the other day, “When you, when, when are you gonna start providing for yourself?”

LOCASCIO: Start providing. Jump off with a, a reduction.

GOTTI: Do some fuckin’ thing! (Pause) But I’m not, ah, again I’m not “beefing,” Frankie. That’s not the way things, and I told him, “What am I creatin’ here?” Ya know, I don’t create a cripple here. Ah, even these other guys, ya know, you gotta get a tongue-lashing, you’ll get it. I gotta get one, I get it (inaudible). Look at this fuckin’ guy, too. Jesus Christ! You know what this guy told me today? This, ah, carpet guy? “Minchia,” he says, “ah—

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: —I thought I had the fuckin’ contract. As soon as your name comes up, I get pushed out by our people! With, with the construction company, (mumbles) I, I, I, I was making all kinds of money,” the guys says. “I was the biggest in the city. I made you a partner, I can’t get a job!” He don’t make—Minchia! My fuckin’ nose is wide open! You fuckin’ kiddin’ somebody, or what? And I see it. I see it myself. I don’t need him to tell me, I don’t need nobody to tell me that. (Pause) Fuck, where ya going here? Where ya goin’ here? (Pause)

LOCASCIO: Who’s that builder Marano? Builds in the Bronx, ya says?

GOTTI: He might be, Frankie I, I, I, I lose. I know the guy, Jamie, that’s aligned with us. The guy we meet today. I was waiting for you to meet him. (Inaudible) Who do I got prove this kind of shit. I don’t, I don’t know nothin’ about building. I don’t (inaudible), anything. All I want is a good sandwich. You see this sandwich here? This tuna sandwich? That’s all I want—a good sandwich. (Background noise) I was thinking, Sammy gives me the shit. I send that fuckin’ moron I got downstairs for a brother, he says, “I have the, the, the plans there.” Yeah, you have the plans there. Don’t you think I wasn’t gonna inquire about that? Every fuckin’ guy that bids the job gets the plans! How you gonna bid the job without plans? How could you bid a job without plans? Without no plans you bid a job? I didn’t know that. ’Cause I told the guy. He’s, he, he had the plans (inaudible). He says, “John, we all got the plans. Every fuckin’ company.”

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible) company (inaudible).

GOTTI: What the fuck, you crazy or what?

LOCASCIO: You pay so much for the plans.

GOTTI: Yeah! You tellin’, so you tellin’ a babbeo [a dope] like me, I don’t know that. How would I know about that shit, you know what I’m saying, Frankie? (Pause) I put him in charge of that, and even more, for the simple reason, Frankie, I think he’s qualified and capable. And I love the guy. Then I don’t wanna have to fuckin’ watch a situation, so I put him there. If I put you there, I gotta watch you? You there to watch it for us. (Pause) Fuck! Make ninety billion dollars! You wanna make legitimate businesses? Make them! Give me a third of the illegitimate shit, keep the fuckin’ (inaudible).

LOCASCIO: But ya see like (inaudible) you know Jimmy Brown is unique. He’s unique (inaudible) ’cause Jimmy Brown is there. There’s an older guy. And that’s all he’s doing.

GOTTI: That’s right.

LOCASCIO: He ain’t putting (inaudible).

GOTTI: Right, and they make a candy store out of it.

LOCASCIO: Jimmy’s unique.

GOTTI: And ya make a candy store out of it.

LOCASCIO: Whatever he does, all right, comes in here.

GOTTI: And what (inaudible).

LOCASCIO: Should watch them. Jimmy’s unique. And ya got to be nice (inaudible).

GOTTI: But, but, but, Frankie, you don’t need (inaudible). Once you got (inaudible) we’re gonna be all right. We get rid of these fuckin’ lawyers and fuckin’ “rat” tapes, we’re gonna be okay, Frank. We’re all gonna be okay. And nobody seem to create.

LOCASCIO: Ah—

GOTTI: But you don’t cripple people.

LOCASCIO: If, if I could suggest something. Why don’t you try and get somebody that is qualified (inaudible) in construction. Make him just to handle the administrative things, you know?

GOTTI: Well, you know—

LOCASCIO: You know like ah, ah, ah—

GOTTI: —but you know what, Frankie—

LOCASCIO: —I think that would take the greed away from—

GOTTI: What happen, you know what, Frankie? That doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t even bother me if he had six, seven companies, companies himself. You know what I would tell him? You would be, I’ll tell him, “Let me know when ya feel you’re gonna choke. Keep that. (inaudible) you’re gonna choke. But you’re not doing that! You’re creating a fuckin’ army inside an army.” You know what I’m saying, Frankie?

LOCASCIO: End up creating another faction.

GOTTI: That’s right!

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible) you’re, you’re saying it mildly.

GOTTI: You know—

LOCASCIO: Another faction.

GOTTI: —what I’m saying. And you’re not gonna do that! I’m not gonna allow that.

LOCASCIO: Shouldn’t be.

GOTTI: He wants it, he could have fifty fucking businesses! I don’t care, Frankie. If you, but I’m your brother, Frankie. You know when I hear something good about a guy, I’ll probably be in jail, because I get caught on tape bragging about it. But, but, Frankie, how many times you tell me (inaudible), Frankie, and Tommy Gambino we brag about his (inaudible). Minchia! I’m proud for the guy. I don’t, I don’t wish the guy no bad. But, Jesus, we’re, we’re bragging about a guy with his money. (Coughs) (Inaudible) want his money? If I hear good about you, and we got no problems, I’m glad. Minchia! Ah, ah, I got one less Jackie to worry about, all right? But you ain’t gonna create a fuckin’ faction. No. That, that shit, I saw that shit here. I saw that shit and I don’t need that shit.

LOCASCIO: No good. And that’s what got him weak. That’s what got him weak.

GOTTI: Sure. But you’ll see—

LOCASCIO: The reason I don’t want to lead to that.

GOTTI: You’ll see that, Frankie. I mean—

LOCASCIO: “Let’s get this and let’s get that, and maybe we can sweeten this here, maybe we can get this here. How, how could we do? Well, we get rid of that.” No good. That’s no good.

GOTTI: We’re making fuckin’ laughingstock. We be back like other “Families.” Laughingstock. (Pause) I called the shot. They already got that in the Colombo “crew.” Now they’re gettin’ it in, ah, Vic and “Gas.” For what? The troops can feel it.

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: Ya kiddin’? It’s only natural, Frankie. But it shouldn’t be here. It shouldn’t be here. We see each other three or four times a week. It’s not like the guy’s in Boston, and we’re in fuckin’ Providence. We see each other three or four times a week. There should be nothin’ that we can’t fuckin’ talk about quick! Over with, next problem! Ya know what I’m saying? The thing that I don’t see you for three months. You got a problem up there, and I don’t, I don’t handle it for three or four months. Minchia! I’m a cocksucker. We see each other, only three days (inaudible). Thursday morning, that’s it. No big deal! And Sammy I meet four or five days a week. There’s no, there’s, there’s no need for this fuckin’ nonsense. And you know, there’s nothing wrong with you. What are you giving these fuckin’ kids? Every kid who comes on your corner are gettin’ all our piece of the company jobs. These are not your fuckin’ private toys. Every Teamster foreman, the guy comes from his neighborhood. Do you know that? I see that, I see that.

LOCASCIO: That’s why Tuesday night is a big night.

GOTTI: Huh?

LOCASCIO: That’s why Tuesday night is a big night.





GOTTI: Huh! And that’s not good, Frankie. Come on! Where are we going here? Don’t you think other people see it? How many guys told me this? How many capodecinas tell me? Don’t I tell them? Because I don’t want a fuckin’—I could even say it, that he’s wrong. Will say I’m a jerkoff. So I say, “I want it that way. That’s the way I do it.” (Pause) You ask Joe Arcuri tomorrow, Thursday, if I didn’t say that Sunday. “That’s the way I want it. I don’t wanna hear nothing.” But I don’t want it that way! What am I saying that’s the way I want it. (Pause) You tell me, “I got a million irons in the fire, chief.” What am I supposed to, love that? Money’s—That’s not me, Frankie. I never was that way, and I never will be that fuckin’ way. I remember how I used to fight. I wanna hear, if we got fifty jobs, maybe three, if Frankie’s got three cripples in the Bronx, give him three. Give this other guy a cripple, over there one. Give that guy two, take four! (Coughs) Ya got cripples to be here, (inaudible) to come over here on Saturday, payroll day? Who has it coming to them? (Pause) Ya know, I, I, I could never see that, even years ago. Any good leader stops these things. He won’t let these things happen. Can’t see that situation happen. Someone’ll think you’re a figurehead, some jerkoff (inaudible) and that I ain’t, know what I mean, Frankie? You know, I didn’t care, ah, Louie DiBono, opened up a business for him. He hates Louie, Louie hates him. Why did they go together, Frankie? (Tapping sounds) You know he hates, he wanted permission to shoot Louie DiBono. Louie DiBono wanted permission to get him shot. Why did they go partners, Frankie? After Nasabeak got sick. Well, if the two guys hate each other, why would you think they become partners? Greed! Both sides. I mean, ah, ah, ah, unless you can come up with a fuckin’ magical word. To me it was greed on both sides. Him, he figured Louie, (inaudible) himself. Louie figured he’s close to the top, hearing everything. Ya know, it was just a little greed. (Mumbles) But ya know, he was looking to fuck him, and he was gonna fuck him. (Clap) And just what happened now. Know what I mean? We got another fuckin’ situation (inaudible) fuckin’ (inaudible). They sent me word in jail that you got ten percent. Guy never had nothin’ in his life; a fuckin’ jerk like me. Best I ever did was go on a few hijackings. Never had nothing in my life. Ya know (inaudible) they grab everything. (Inaudible) bucks. You’re telling me, I got ten percent of a million-dollar business.

LOCASCIO: Million, million dollar’s worth of business!

GOTTI: Yeah. Minchia!

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: You know what I want you to do, Frank? We gotta both buy chemotherapy with the money I got. You know, so this is what we get after two and a half fuckin’ years. So, so why do you give me Arp├Ęge when you got a piece of (inaudible) a piece of what? A piece of what? And every time I see a kid that was a hobo, “Kid’s a no-good cocksucker.” You were telling me the story. He tells who with this Frankie Dap? He tells me, “This kid’s a little cocksucker. I’m gonna split his head. I wish you would let me split his head.” This [was] over three and a half years ago, four years ago. Frankie DeCicco [was] alive. Frankie dies, the kid hangs around with him a little bit. What a beautiful kid, the kid is. Got him the head Teamsters job. The kid drives a fuckin’ Mercedes-Benz. He makes somebody to straighten him (inaudible) take it easy. Let’s go back to your first opinion. Take it easy. You know, Frankie (inaudible) where are we going here? (Pause—radio in background) No, no, good, Frankie. No good. I know you know, and I know I know (inaudible) that, that, that he knows it, too. Sammy knows it.

LOCASCIO: You gotta pull him up—

GOTTI: Sammy—Frankie, if I thought different, believe me—Frank, (inaudible), ya know I love the guy. Much as I love you, but I’m more—But I just gotta say what I feel, Frankie. He’s my brother. And if I think he done some wrong, I’ll slap him on the hand. He knows it. You know that. You know I’ll pull him up a million times. But do you agree with me to, to, he’s doing—

LOCASCIO: Definitely, it was wrong. \

GOTTI: I mean—

LOCASCIO: There’s creating, there’s creating, and there’s creating.

GOTTI: I’m gonna go to jail and leave him in charge! So obviously, I gotta love the guy! I gotta think he’s capable. But not for things like this!

LOCASCIO: I, I think you should pull him up and I think you should take away—

GOTTI: (Coughs)

LOCASCIO: —(inaudible) business.

GOTTI: I’m gonna do that, Frankie.

LOCASCIO: Let him, let somebody else handle (inaudible).

GOTTI: You know why?

LOCASCIO: —(inaudible) somebody else handle (inaudible).

GOTTI: You know, you know what I’m gonna tell him? I swear on my mother.

LOCASCIO: I’m sure that you know somebody that, that’s capable as him when it comes to business. That could handle.

GOTTI: Here’s why—

LOCASCIO: Ya start thinking about it—

GOTTI: I could. Yeah, yeah, I could. You know why I didn’t, Frankie? I put it all in his lap for one reason, Frankie. You know something, Frank? They used to bring me a pay (inaudible) times five weeks (inaudible) seventy-two hundred (inaudible). (Coughs) But, Frankie, you’re the underboss. You’re my brother. Why I gotta see a paper, (inaudible) from you? (Tap sound) If you tell me there’s two hundred thousand, there’s two hundred thousand, Frankie. So, he used to bring me the paper. I told him, “I don’t, er, Sam, don’t bring me no paper. I don’t wanna see no paper.” “You know up there I hear?” “Yeah, but what happens if something happens to me? What if that happens to both of us? Look, I don’t wanna see no paper.” I haven’t seen a paper in two years. ’Cause I didn’t want to find this out. “Joe Piney” used to show me the paper. You know why I used to look at ’em? Frankie—and I love “Joe Piney.” He’s a fuckin’ idiot. He used to go like this. This, he didn’t know what the fuck he was talking about. I know that. But I figured—I didn’t know what I’m talking about. He didn’t know what he was talking about. So he won’t know that I don’t know what I’m talkin’ about. (Laughter) Fuck this. I swear to God, Frankie, I still didn’t show it. “What’s this?” I used to go (inaudible). “Huh, hah.” (Laughter)

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: (Coughs)

LOCASCIO: “Hah, hah, hah, hah, all right?”

GOTTI: So like with Sam (inaudible) Sam, not you. “Whatever you say is there, that’s what’s there.”

LOCASCIO: (Inaudible)

GOTTI: “Take what you gotta take. Sammy, if you were broke take twenty percent, if there’s such a thing.” There’s six guys in the fuckin’ city. Whether it’s right or wrong, I (inaudible). I would be a billionaire if I was looking to be a selfish boss. That’s not me. You don’t know the best part of it. A guy passed a remark just recently. I swear on my mother. “Chief, can I get ten thousand a week?” (Inaudible) I went up to see him. Fuckin’ MCC [Metropolitan Correctional Center] third floor. “What do you think this [is] some fuckin’ gang here? What do you think this is a park here? You a millionaire fifteen times over! What do you need (inaudible) bother ya? What are you kiddin’ somebody?” Then he said, he said, “I was just kidding.” “Yeah, but the guy you were kiddin’ (inaudible) was a half a cop! I go to jail for that stuff. I don’t need you to put me in jail.” They don’t say it, Frankie, but what I’m getting at is, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, if I was that other motherfucker! Everything goes on there and nothin’ goes out. You know I’m taking care of the people. If you don’t believe me, you take care of them! God, God fuckin’ bless you! Gimme fifty percent, take the other fifty percent. Knock yourself out because I’ll be getting way more than what I’m getting now. What? Bring in papers, we don’t need no papers. We brothers, Frankie. We don’t need none of these papers and shit—nothin’ like that. We don’t need none of that. We’re too close for that shit. Know what I mean? But Jesus fuckin’ Christ! Ya see I got that kind of fuckin’ trust and put that (inaudible) “Cosa Nostra.” We are where we belong. We’re in the positions we belong in, Frankie, and, and nobody could change that. But this business thing. Ahh, it’s brothers! Please. And if you robbing people on my behalf, stop. When I say “robbing,” I don’t mean robbing. You know, ya taking work out of other people’s mouths. You wanna rob people on my behalf, stop on my behalf. You feel you gotta (inaudible) yours. Like you said, Frankie, guys gotta a right to be in businesses. (Inaudible)

LOCASCIO: As long as you’re off the record. (Inaudible)

GOTTI: (Inaudible)






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